Video Alin Ozinians Interview With Hrant Dink de Agos 2025 Lyrics Lyrics

Agos - Alin Ozinians Interview With Hrant Dink Lyrics

"I am the one who is aware of the pain of my own people and carries this burden".
2006 was the middle of October. We agreed with Hrant and decided to meet at Agos office. I had made interviews with about 30 Turkish academics, journalists, politicians and thinkers for the project "Emotional and intellectual climate in Turkey on the Armenian issue", and Hrant introduced me most of them. Now it was the turn to answer the questions.
When I entered his room, he welcomed me very warmly and we started talking. Sometimes when I chatted, I turned off the recorder and told me about the ambiguities. Then how could I have imagined that the bottom of this stupid script I did not have much chance to do would happen in two months. When our interview was over, I was happy to think that we would act positively in the direction of the situation, as if I had asked him the answers.
I spoke with Hrant on January 16th when I was in Yerevan last. I was asking for ideas to make the project a book. Short talk. Come here he said face to face. After that date I went to Istanbul many times, but never again face to face ...
- Tell us about Agos, how and why you are founded, who are your idea fathers?
- Agos was a publication forced by the conditions of the Armenian group in Turkey. Agos came out of the congregation despite some negative reactions. There was not enough Armenian broadcast in the community anymore, because there were many Armenians who came from Anatolia who only spoke Turkish. Hence, these people could not follow the Armenian press and there was a serious lack of communication. A society that lived in a closed state had a necessity brought about by the desire to open it. We had to make a defense. Society was being told out differently. The Armenian word turned into a blasphemy for a while, some of them related to the PKK, some associating with ASALA. When the Nagorno-Karabakh issue was spoken, there was an incredible discomfort inside.
As Armenians, we were listening to the arguments about us in the media, like a worm in the house, and we could not do anything. We were rebelling, yelling, lying, but we could not voiced it loudly. I had to tear it off.
The Conqueror Patriot Winner, one day he called and called me. Again there was such a news in the morning newspaper. A photo of Abdullah Öcalan was printed with an Armenian cleric, under the document - cooperation with the Armenian and the PKK! His Patriarchs told me that this was a lie and that this man of religion was not an Armenian, he asked me and a few friends there to see what we could do. I told you my views, do not be silent, I said I should hold a press conference. It was a risky job but all the domestic and foreign press were gathered and it was very successful. After this meeting, I no longer have to hold a press conference in every case, instead I brought a proposal to publish a newspaper.
The suggestion, I and some of my friends were robbed. Later, they were friends who broke up and I got the job. Another reason was to create an intellectual kitchen for young people, to educate social scientists, intellectuals from within this society.
- What problems did you encounter during the establishment phase and later on?
The first problem we faced was the conservative press in the congregation. The Armenian press was the antipathy we heard. They spent 6 months, 1 year, but we finished the 10th year. Imagine, even those who did not report the outbreak of Agos.
We are broadcasting in Turkish, in the eyes of some people who have stepped back. However, we tried to use Turkic to explain that good things could be done for this society. I think they are getting convinced.
- Did you have a goal, such as the Turks being able to follow the Armenian community and the press, while starting to take the newspaper?
- One of our main goals is to open up this community. A window could be a door, I think we achieved it, and both communities are becoming more integrated.
We have been able to turn our own social problems into problems of Turkey. We thought that it would be right to solve our problems through democratization of Turkey, so we have been interested in this community to deal with the basic problems of the society. Apart from this, the Armenian community together with Agos became more bold advocate, ownership of his identity, began to be afraid.
- Would you like to be a journalist in Turkey, especially if you want to publish a newspaper for a minority? What are your views on press freedom in Turkey?
- There is no specific difficulty to make minority newspapers. If you are not an ambitious journalist in Turkey, you do not act with certain political arguments, you are not a difficult profession if you are more interested in magazine news. If you are a journalist with certain ideologies, of course you will.
There are some restrictions on the freedom of the press in recent years, there are some restrictions imposed by the new TCK and the Press Law, we take our share, our journalists have been confiscated several times ... Sometimes it is because we are standing against the Armenian issue in particular. I feel it, but we endure, I still do not give up.
- What is the European Union's importance for Turkey in the current period? Should Turkey be absolutely involved in the European Union?
- The EU is an indispensable process for Turkey. We have to see the reason that pushes Turkey to EU. This is not desire, fear. This process is slow because it is a fear, and if it were desire it was fast. This fear, of course, is the fear of uncertainty. If you look at it from the EU, fear of what will happen to Turkey if we do not take it for its own sake. Therefore, unless this fear is over, I think that you will never come back from this process. EU means to delegate a kind of sovereignty, but if the militarist structure that governs Turkey had so far called the EU a clear no, this process would not have come to this already. If we can not join the EU, we may have to leave NATO someday. I do not think any development can stop this process, maybe slow it down, sometimes even freeze it, but it can not lift it.
If we look at the history of the Republic, there are three basic periods that affect the internal dynamics of Turkey. The first is the period of cold war, the period when the state crushed the leftists. The second was the revolution in Iran. With this revolution, the demands of political confusion of religious people in Turkey came to the agenda and today they came to power. The third dynamic was the EU process. There has never been another period that has affected Turkey so much. This process did not leave any group in Turkey homogeneous in itself. Today in the military there is also against the EU, in the bureaucracy, in the academic staff, in the media ...
- What is the biggest problem in the westernization and modernization process of Turkey?
- I think the main problem is resistance to the fears, rules and reactions from above. Turkey was built on a smaller area than the Ottomans, so there is still a fear that the country may be even smaller. We can call it "Sevr syndrome." For this reason, Turkey has developed a policy that approaches every new, every change, suspicion, fear. Therefore, the dynamic of change slows in Turkey.
Turkey is in a position to be both a gateway and a wall between the West and the East. I see the wall between east and west in Turkey as Malatya. The east and west of Malatya are separate worlds. Turkey is an important country in a really strategic sense, and besides it has a dependency on both the west and the east. As such, I think it is unfair to expect a rapid adaptation from Turkey.
One of the biggest reasons for not being able to change is that building built in Turkey, ie artificial identity. A new history, a new language, was built and then dictated. That is why the fear of the calculation of history has come. Each one of the different historical interpretations is an earthquake for this identity. I think it scares Europe, too, because if this building is destroyed, it will not be destroyed by its own subordinate, it could be destroyed on top of others ...
- Are you convinced that in the process of harmonization with the European Union, reforms in the field of human rights and democracy can be made and this can have positive consequences? If these reforms are to take place, does it bother you that the reforms are indexed to the integration process, that is, they are made for the EU, not voluntary for the people?
- There is no doubt about it, but it's a difficult process. Legislation comes out, practice becomes difficult. Practices become, opponents become ... The mentality needs to be changed, democratization changes quite mentality, democratization accelerates as mentality changes. It's a process.
- While going to these reforms, it is observed that in some cases people are disturbed. For example, freedom of thought can be perceived as treason (TCK-301), freedom of religion-freedom of conscience (headscarf). What is the reason for this, is not the public really ready for these reforms?
- It is said that you have a rising nationalism in Turkey, but I believe that you have an elevated nationalism. The last two years have been remarkable still, which is why they are deep engineers. These people are trying to design future elections in Turkey.
What they can take over with AKP are doing this account. How is power overthrown? The economy is not good, it is oppressive in terms of democratic rights, but there is no such problem in the AKP. Then other arguments will be brought, such as nationalism. Nationalism can be done over everything, from martyrdoms to papal discourse, from the EU to the opposition ...
I think that the next elections in this reaction are not to let the top authority of the state lose to the religious people, to form a coalition where there is no religious people, to leave it to religious people,
- Do you think there is discrimination based on ethnic origin in Turkey? Could you tell me the reasons that triggered it and the results it brings? Will this problem have a solution in the European Union harmonization process?
There is no doubt that there is a different treatment according to ethnic roots. If it were not so, today there would be non-Muslims, Armenians in the General Staff, in the Ministry, in the Army, in the Police and in different states.
Security is at the forefront of the reasons for this. Turkey has always considered minorities in the concept of security and considered them a security issue.
The Armenian population of 300 thousand in the minutes of the Lausanne fell to 60 today. The Turkish population of 13 million went to 70. When one was leaving, the other fell because the minorities had to be reduced. There have been major breaks in the Being Tax, like September 6, already happened during these periods. Armenians have already reduced themselves for Economic, Psychological and Security reasons.
Another data is that in Turkey there are no minorities, no statements about Armenians in any textbook. Minorities referenced in a single National Security course book. Even in the primary school grammar books, Armenians, Ali can not find the ball at Hagop, Ali always throws the ball, we do not have to look at it ...
You can find it in one book of National Security Armenians, in the games section on Turkey, in harmful organizations ...
- How do you evaluate the relations between Turkey and Armenia?
- We can talk about non-relation, we see an unrelated date when we look at the history after Armenia's independence. There are efforts, America did not enter in the first place, now there is a suppression of the EU, a locked point, progress can not be achieved.
I think Turkey has locked relations because the understanding of the state in Turkey is still not getting accustomed to Armenia, the existence of an independent state in the Caucasus. But there is such a state there, there is a neighbor, and this must be accepted and the associations must be started. There is a public policy work in the place where the government policy is carried out, there are civil underground undertakings, but very little, it is weak. If the people's diplomacy develops too much, it will change the state diplomacy with the pressure from below ...
- How should the 1915 events be named according to your outlook?
- It's a genocide for me, no hesitation.
- What is the solution to this problem, what is your opinion on the unconditional diplomatic proposal recommended by Armenia and the history commission proposed by Turkey? How do you evaluate the experiences of the third countries in their parliamentary approaches to the issue and genocide laws?
- I do not find the position of Turkey at all sincere. I find Armenian very sincere.
- Why do you think you will not get a result with the history commission?
- Yes, everybody knows that the history commission will not be able to reach a conclusion. In the end, the unconformity will continue when you do not arrive, and this is the path that Turkey has chosen. I suppose Azerbaijan is imposing irrelevance on him. The Armenian side is more sincere and more desirous.
- How do you evaluate the experiences of the third countries in their parliamentary approaches to the issue and genocide laws?
- My stance on these subjects can be quite romantic, but I can not compromise the position. I think that the world is as hypocritical as Turkey in the acceptance process of the Armenian genocide. The world knows this truth for a long time, and at that time they were involved in it, their roles, their effects. Now 85 years later France accepts, I do not think there is a moral stance here. As they do not have a moral stance, they use it as trump cards in relation to Turkey.
As an Armenians, my tragedy is being used as a political trump card in the international arena. I can not stand it, I rebel. In this respect I do not care about third countries. I see this as a problem that needs to be solved between Turkey and Armenia. I think that it should be resolved morally rather than criminal laws. We do not need criminal laws in morality, we have conscience, we can not empathize enough. I believe that two countries can overcome this, I can no longer accept this, I do not know if I can apologize, I do not want to say anything already ...
- Do you see Armenians, Turks, Armenians and Diaspora Armenians as different groups when you are talking about genocide and Armenian issue, are they different from each other in terms of thought and action? Which is the group that needs to be addressed in the solution of the question?
- It's not just about it, I see it in general. For Diaspora Turkey is a remote and unbearable country. A close, neighbors and compulsory country for Armenia. For the Turkish Armenians, Turkey is already themselves. They are the closest and the healthiest of this country, and therefore they are.
When I say this, I do not want to grant the Turkish discourse, that is, to distinguish Armenians from each other. As regards the group that should be taken as a partner, Turkey should establish good relations with all of them, but the two states must of course have to deal with it and solve the problem among them. It is not in question that the Armenian Armenians are already addressed because they are citizens of this country.
- Are you bothering you as a Turkish citizen with the Turkish-Armenian border closed? How do you criticize the Armenian politics of Turkey, which regards the problem between Armenia and Azerbaijan as a problem of its own, and is primarily concerned with the settlement of this issue?
- Turkey and Azerbaijan are locked in the Demirel period, and the Armenian politics are blocked by Azerbaijan. It is obvious that Turkey does not want to go into relations with Armenia and upset Azerbaijan. The attitude of Azerbaijan is not to establish relations with Turkey to Armenia by pretending the Karabakh conflict.
Nationalism in Turkey, no power, no solution can go without Azerbaijan. In this politics, the presence of a volunteer, Armenian neighbor in Turkey is not very pleasant.
Turkey had finished the Armenian question in its head, but suddenly the problem had receded as the individual gained independence of Armenia. Turkey suddenly saw a ghoul, what was to be done, a foreign policy was needed to create. In the midst of all these searches, the Karabakh problem came to the agenda. Turkey hugged it with four hands, took an oh. He said that this is my fault, he will manage me for a long time. The present situation is the continuation of this policy ...
- Is this the continuation of the Ottoman Empire of the Republic of Turkey and can it be problematic for those in its history?
I'm not too romantic again, I'm not a person who is looking for accountability or apology. I am the one who is aware of the pain of my own people and carries this burden. While carrying this load, no one is ever wishing for help from anyone. Knowing that date, it is not mine to confront with it personally their problems. They have to do this on behalf of democratization, it has already happened to us, they should do it for themselves.
In my head there is neither land nor compensation. I think it is necessary to know what the role of what and who plays the role of the relationships that have been consumed in the past. I think the segments of those who are aware of these roles, the European countries, should pay for the re-production of these relations. I think that the cost of creating common areas of interest between the two countries can be economic or cultural. They need to help reproduce the relationships they help to consume.
- Can we say that the role of the Committee of Union and Progress is very large in this question?
- This is a single group action, I never go in to talk about us, it is not the only sin of the group, there are also those who support it, motorize from behind, have eyes on what they do. There are people who want to be out of sight today, if you look for responsibility, they are responsible, everyone has their share, but it is not my duty to remind you, it is very romantic maybe,
- If we need to do an analysis, what are the basic problems of both sides?
- There are frets, reluctance, fears, hostilities ... I also have these fears in Armenia and I think that they should be taken care of. Armenia feels trapped between Azerbaijan and Turkey and they doubt their security. This fear, this insecurity is a significant handicap, it has to be vaccinated. Turkey is the one that will help overcome this. Turkey should now be friendly with Armenia's friendliness.
The Armenian world should now behave well and read the current photograph well. There is an independent Armenia, but there are two states around it that have embargoed themselves. In the north there is a Georgia that is constantly ungrateful. It can only breathe from the south and there is a regime of stones that is in danger of a future. How can this be the case, the Diaspora should sit down and think about it. It is necessary to establish good relations with the neighbors and, of course, to become an EU member. If Armenia was an EU Member today, Turkey would be embargoing Europe, not her, but keeping her border closed.
Where the Diaspora is trying to pass legislation on parliament from the country it is in, it should persuade its own countries to accept Armenia for the EU. They should remind them of their responsibilities, because if we do not come to our present situation, they have a share. The Diaspora should know that they can do this to them. This is a formula I have developed and we can request it from the past in the name of the past. We can say that we discriminate positively.
Alin Ozinian
Agos Newspaper , Istanbul
October 2006